Paradise Lost, Milton: '...horror and doubt distract/ His troubled thoughts, and from the bottom stir/ The Hell within him, for within him Hell/ He brings, and round about him, nor from Hell..'..+Williams:' ..Hell is always inaccurate'...unless tis our Own, and coming from within...ie ur dream reflects ur Own apprehension of Hell

...in other words, Ur 'Hell' comes in the form of 'Poetic Justice'...a morbid, gruesomely appropriate realization of 'What goes around, comes around'...of 'paying the piper'... Are u by any chance feeling either awfully 'guilty' about sthg... awfully 'injured/mad/ angry/enraged', could be on ur own behalf, or on some1 else's...?

Ur own behalf= u felt deeply 'wronged'...some1 else's could ref to another person...or community...also could apply on a social, or even national scale...

...but then again, as i mentioned, 'Guilt', the perception/feeling that u have, urself, deeply wronged some1... 'humanity'...or 'God'...could also trigger such a 'vision'...

#2 o course refers to what's called in Buddhism the law of Karma. y sound very 'objective' about the dream; it may be 'about you', it may also just be your subconscious givin you a general education about the principle of balance/ equilibrium, karma ... in the universe, to help recognize when something has "come back around" ..

... tho must agree, yr 'inner educator' is a very 'trippy' teacher .......

Sorry abt delay....absolutely I understand...Jungian dream analysis definitely pins the dreams on the one having it...saying all the characters in y dream are actually u and yr subcontious attempts at getting through to yourself...just not sure why my subcontious always chooses the most terrifying of visions for that lovin communic

...nightmares are my forte...which is why this site is interesting...karma and guilt...well yes of course...(x-cept that philosophically speaking and thats indian mystical philosophy actually dissolves that concept leaving it for the lay man as in karma only works if you play in that realm. hmmm tmo? )

so guilt yes possible but not because I am not looking at myself honestly.. Just not sure which work load to take on...trying to not run. :) I think that unfortunately last statement is most true...inner educator is kicking my arse. Sigh...thanks X

..hmm...'nightmares are my forte'...etymology of 'nightmare'= 'mare'/a female spirit, original ref to a demon or incubus, which visits to choke/suffocate a sleeper...kinda sheds new light on ur 'hellish vision'...do u feel choked/suffocated/ 'held in' by a woman, past or present, or by what u perceive as 'the feminine' in society?

...could ref to feminine element, 'role', or trend...could be u see/live/experience that as some sorta 'hellish vicious cycle of punishment and retribution'...

...also have a question about karma in relation to a lay person...how can it be a 'Law of Life' n at the same time be closed off to most of the living?

Yesss...that is interesting choked/suffocated by the feminine for sure and also the masculine I believe. Definitely feeling like a spirit bound by a body which is confined to being received as half of a whole ie. unable to express freely and fully both sides of the coin equaling one complete being.....

In reference to the Karma question...if I understand the question...it remains a law of life as long as one sees themselves bound or existing within some sort of a moral universe which has an endless cause and effect chain operating during a life be it while in the body or after vacating....

Either way it can be said and is also believed/understood by some that one operates within such a framework until one is freed from it all together (enlightenment) by a mere realization that the soul is free and operates outside any sort of ethical framework which we might philosophize about while spending time here on earth....

...many thanks HoundDog- after the Elvis song y know ;)...but was askin for clarification with ref to '..dissolves that concept...karma only works if u play in that realm.hmmm tmo?'...put that way, sounds kinda 'elitist' n 'selective' not to mention other thgs...so still awaitin TrippyKarma's feedback...waiting still...waiting...

...Oh sorry, that was u, TrippyKarma-HoundDog...still don't get it...not the definition of karma, but rather the 'concept' of some kinda 'exclusive-members-only-club'....

...mean how would a 'Law of Life' be 'dissolved' with regards to certain people...?

he he he...clever on that HoundDog front. I guess the question would be, "who put the law in place?" .....'dissolved concept of karma'-right....well I should have known that would stir...most religious traditions have the mystical side of their teaching ie. the philosophy that the mystics chew and the lay people do not bother with.

they remain busy with the dogma and the rituals which all spiritual traditions are rich with...it is a way to give the lay person something to do a framework from which to operate. Karma is one of those "frameworks" put in place, not untrue but not final is all I am saying. And I refer back to #15 as a reminder of how one breaks ou

out of the cycle...I suppose the mystics are a sort of an elite...but that is not what I mean...simply that there are definitely levels within those spiritual societies which like caste systems take one only as far as each one allows. Indian philosophy does have a distinct one in place however which makes this a bit more obvious.

Thanks, ur answer very much appreciated ;)..n with ref to #13 perceivin the body as sthg rather negative/'binds'/'confines/'cell-like'/'prison-like' as opposed to say 'temple-like', would def hinder 'free expression'...how can a soul hope to grow to eventually rise above the body which was 'assigned to it' n which it 'inhabits'...

True! I will take that away from this. :) Thank you......

...if it doesn't communicate with it>embrace>appreciate- basically integrate with- bring the parts together in order to become more than the sum of the parts, greater than the whole..after all, the body is an important source of knowledge...ex how diff would our perception of ourselves n the world be without input from the 5 senses

...oops sorry...seems we're cross-writing...

true true as we do choose this experience in order to experience infinity...duality is a part of that...it just get's complicated sometimes thats all...especially in the gender department. Yep.

Ha yes eager beavers! X

...well maybe could try 'complementarity' in 'division of labor'( assignment relative to 'individual strengths')...n 'mutual appreciation'...?

That is the aspiration. Steadfastness is another topic all together. Ha. Being torn in regards to the commitments of heaven vs. earth poses some dilemmas. Heaven always wins and earth receives my frustrations....

...this would also explain ur 'hellish visions'/nightmares...maybe the msg/moral of ur dream is: u can't be truly honorin ur 'heavenly commitments' if u're 'dishonorin' ( 'receives my frustrations') ur 'earthly' ones...don't think 'heavenly' could be fulfilled @ the expense of 'earthly'...